Question for experienced Oil Painters and Acrylics

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Christopher Gaudreau on February 9, 2009 at 7:46am

well, I don't have much experience in oils either (I use acrylics also). But my experience in being a painting contractor tells me that you'd just need to use a primer of some sort (like "1.2.3. by Killz.. its water based) in order to just paint over top. But... if you're going to collage first, covering the oil paint with glue and paper, I see no reason you couldn't just start with the acrylics.

Permalink Reply by Kathryn Pedroza on February 9, 2009 at 12:18pm

What a good question. I know that you can paint oils over acrylic paint but not the other way around. The acrylic will peal off eventually. I don't see why you can't gesso over the canvas and go from there. I have done that, it gives you a new surface to work on. (Make sure you put a few coats on the canvas.)
Oils can be expensive but I started with a starter kit that had the primary and secondary colors in it just to see if I would like them or not. I have also found they can run about the same as acrylic depending on manufacturer and pigments.
I hope this helps, by no means am I a expert, but in my experience this is what I have found.
Good luck and would love to hear how it comes out!
All the best!
Kathyrn

Permalink Reply by Christopher Adam Lessley on February 9, 2009 at 2:31pm

Step 1: Sand the oil paint first to let the gesso get enough tooth into the original primed canvas. Dont neglet to clean the surface using an appropriate solvent.
Step 2: Gesso, then sand again. Clean. Allow time to cure.
Step 3: Paint.

Alternatively, one can easily remove the used canvas and re-use the frame by stretching new canvas. Most of the expense is not in canvas (unless linen) but in the framing. Just exacto the old canvas around the frame edges, remove and stretch new canvas.

Check out Painting & Canvas Preparation for more info on what happens when acrylic, gesso and oil get together.

Permalink Reply by Christina R Martinez on February 9, 2009 at 2:52pm

Thank you to all of you for your responses and suggestions.

I think some I will plan on collage since I had some collage projects in mind anyways.... So thanks Christopher (Gaudreau)

And thanks Kathryn for the gesso over idea. I wasn't sure if that would work.

Christopher Adam Lessley... (all these Chris')... yours was a very thorough suggestion. In particular, the sanding over the oil prior to gesso. I was wondering if just applying gesso over the oil would hold. I am very appreciative for those those steps. Both the steps to re-use the canvas and to cut out the canvas and re-use the frame.

This was all very helpful! Thank you to each of you!

Permalink Reply by Christopher Adam Lessley on February 9, 2009 at 3:57pm

From what I understand, or lack of understanding, the gesso-to-oil bond is mostly, if not all, a physical one. So is oil atop gesso (like I paint). If kept away from humidity and sunlight most of all our work will outlast us regardless if we use oil or acrylic or enamel.

The sanding increases the surface area, acting like a microscopic canyon full of little ravines the gesso can bond into through the pre-existing oil surface, hopefully, back to the original canvas. If one sands too smooth, the bond is weak. Don't use a fine tooth paper, something a little gritty but not enough to scour the canvas itself. Removing and cleaning that oil/gesso dust is important since it'll just back fill the sanding if its not removed by a type of mineral spirits.

Permalink Reply by Juliana Harris on February 10, 2009 at 3:02am

Hi Christina, I'm coming into this discussion late, but just want to add my two cents since I can't fall asleep so I'm online! Even if you do collage, I'd sand first because the range of modern glues is another vast chemistry subject! When sanding, wear a good mask since you're lifting the highly toxic dust of old oils. Some of the newer oils are designed with less toxicity. Many artists don't think about the cadmiums, cobalts, thalos, etc. Ideally, do it outdoors. Use a fine bristle brush and/or hair dryer or vacuum to really blast off the dust, and then wipe down further with alcohol or white vinegar if you don't have spirits. Lessley's advice on the sanding and resanding process is excellent and you don't want to take short-cuts to rush that process. Also there's a site called about.com and the topic Painting is edited by a knowledgeable woman, who offers lots of basic practical tips. Good luck and have fun with those canvases! I've heard it's a good idea to begin projects during the new moon.

Permalink Reply by Christina R Martinez on February 10, 2009 at 1:43pm

You guys are great. This is really helpful. Thanks about using the Alcohol or white vinegar. I am sooo broke right now I couldn't even buy the solvents, so knowing I can use these basic items I already have in the house is a blessing.

Thank you for all your experience!

Permalink Reply by Christopher Adam Lessley on February 11, 2009 at 10:28am

A wide range of solvents that may include mineral spirits, turpentine, turpenoid or acetone - and others - can be used. If you're in that family of solvents, you really can't do it "the wrong way".

These are nearly as as cheap as alcohol or white vinegar in a 12 oz can from a hardware store, maybe 5-7 dollars. Pure Gum Turpentine that I use is right around the $7 mark from Home Depot and I use it for 4-6 months on average attacking large canvases and panels.

I would use the alcohol before vinegar. It'll leave less residue when it evaporates (will do this very quickly, very cold to touch and wasteful on a large surface) but there's no chance of distorting any colors in the future since it is not derived from an organic source.

Permalink Reply by Christopher Adam Lessley on February 11, 2009 at 10:46am

I'd like the reiterate Juliana Harris and mandate the use of a mask, better, use a full face mask filter if you're going to blow the dust off with an air can or compressor.

VERY toxic dusts from gesso, oil, acrylic, anything really, just simple pine sawdust is quite toxic. Once the Pulmonary alveolus (air sacs in our lungs) get filled with that sort of stuff you can't cough it out, it never leaves your body.

For example, the chances of developing nasal and sinus cancer run about 5-40 times greater for woodworkers than non-woodworkers.

I'm not sure exactly on the specifics for artists but I assume our chances when dealing with the wide range of chemicals, media and cleaners must be worse.

Permalink Reply by Huff Art Center on February 12, 2009 at 7:28am

You know I was thinking... what if you covered it in some different kinds of fabric or even burlap and then painted over, you know take advantage of the holes and tears. or paper, I have been quietly experimenting with the idea of doing that. I am working on a piece now that I think is going in a good direction.
The old stuff is kind of there and brought in to the new piece on top.

Permalink Reply by Dennis Lewis on February 17, 2009 at 9:13am

Hi Christina,

I have heard that using Easy Off oven cleaner works well when removing paint from canvas. However, it may eat through the canvas over time. You may be able to hose them down right afterward and put on a fresh coat of gesso right afterward.

Also, consider checking with Michael's (Shaw Ave. in Clovis). They sell student grade oil paints. Not as expensive as popular brands. Oils can get really expensive but, the results are outstanding concerning color
and reproduction of work. If you choose to use oils you can use a paint thinner also that works well for thining out your paints (Tupinoid paint thinner) also sold at Michaels. Best results for mediu mix is 3 equal
parts of Demar Varnish, Tupintine, and Linseed Oil. Mixed in equal parts creates a great medium mix when workng with oils.

-Dennis Lewis

Permalink Reply by Sharyne E Walker on July 3, 2010 at 7:39pm

The rule is ALWAYS fat over lean.

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